Home pageOur Product RangeUK Bio-power companiesFAQEvents and ActivitiesContact usSite Map
Make your own fuelDeeper studyTaxationThe bio-power CharterOur Vision for a bio-power networkChemistry
Glossary of Technical TermsInvest in saving the planetQuotesLinksDownloadMembers

Quotes from things people have said - the goods in greens and the bads in reds

If you have any letters or quotations that could usefully be added to this site, then please send them by e-mail.

I have found your web site very interesting and informative and look forward to making my own alternative fuel when I can get round to it. I own a Peugeot 309 Diesel and travel 120 miles a day, 5 days a week = 28,800 miles a year and that's not including any social travel. A fuel that can save money and be better for the environment sounds too good to be true.

I have read other recipes for making bio-diesel but they use dangerous chemicals such as sulphuric acid, menthol and lye. I have 3 children and hate the thought of having such things in my garage, I much prefer your gentle approach of things settling by themselves.

Regards
Neil Lough

John,
thanks very much indeed for your very prompt and comprehensive response. Your advice really is appreciated, it has cleared up my understanding of the legal issues regarding the use of WVO. Also, I read with interest the attached information, in respect of the UK governments stance on the taxation of non-fossil fuels. I am inclined to agree that taxation rates appear to be inconsistent with the other European countries; and that there positio in general is somewhat ill-conceived. In addition, how can the government claim to have evidence that vegetable oils may cause damage to the diesel engine? Do they not realise that the engine was designed to run on peanut oil in the first place?!
Further, I shall read, in detail, the documents you attached. I sincerely think that I should probably be adding my support to the bio-power community.
Regards,  Andrew Emblin.

You ask about my experience, background and motivation on bio fuels. I am running a business breeding cattle for beef/dairy farmers throughout the central and west midlands. I always thought being "green" was all about protesting about issues close to your heart. I now know that you don't need to protest noisily to make a difference in looking after our planet. We can make an active effort each and every day by adjusting our lives and the way in which we live.

Our local council actively encourage recycling our household waste which my wife and I wholeheartedly support. I have now found another way which I believe I as well as my family and indeed my business can make another effort in doing our bit for the environment. I estimate our business uses around 17-20000 lts of diesel fuel every year in providing our services. That is a lot of CO2 and other gases/pollutants being released into the atmosphere. If we can switch to a bio fuel alternative, we are doing a lot more in our efforts.

My motivation? I have long believed in renewable energy sources. Wind farms, Solar and Wave energy and the like. I have three children who have to live in the world that we influence today. At the rate at which we are damaging the planet, are face masks against pollution going to be part of everyday life for them? When we look at the visible damage we are doing, who doesn't feel the huge sadness at catastrophic oil spills the ravage beautiful coastlines, destroying wildlife and decimating communities that rely on the sea for their living? When that tanker went down off Spain just the other month, I personally felt guilty. We rely on the multinational oil giants for our fuel,  we are all culpable aren't we? (JN) No we don't. That's the very problem. People do not have to rely upon the oil giants. There are many forms of bio-fuel readily availble all around us.
From what I have seen, bio fuels can be made fairly cheaply from virtually any fat product, and sugars and starches - even cellulose without the impact on the environment that fossil fuels have. It would be nice to save money on fuel costs, that I can't deny, but if our government made bio fuel a duty free product how many people would convert to it's use? Bearing in mind the nations anti tax sentiments, the effect on the environment would be dramatic. (JN) Non-fossil fuels are duty free in most other 'sensible' countries.

(JN) Read every word on our web site, and the glossary, links etc.,  and keep in touch!
JN

Hi John,

Just accidentally came across your site. Started off this morning looking for local bicycle road maps in Sydney, can you believe it. Am inspired and encouraged by your site.....What us sh.t kickers can do when we band together as thinking beings, above and beyond the constraints of governments is a wonder. I guess when all is said and done the average consumer acting together is a mightly powerful force. Is that what they mean when they say "the meek shall inherit the earth"? Have often wondered about that one...........Just sending a note of solidarity.....and when I can would love to invest .....think its fab.....
Rae Motteram
Sydney, Australia

WARS, RUDOLF DIESEL AND CHIPS

We have a genuinely viable, simple and proven opportunity for this.   In 1900 at the World Exhibition in Paris, Rudolf Diesel showed his newly invented engine and said two words which astonished the gathered engineers ,inventors and scientists: "peanut oil".  This is what his prototype ran on!

In 1911 he declared : "the Diesel engine can be fed with vegetable oils and would help considerably in the development of agriculture of the countries which use it". A year later Rudolf Diesel said: "the use of vegetable oils for engine fuels may seem insignificant today, but such oils may become ,in the course of time as important as petroleum and the coal tar products of the present time."

In Germany today, alone ,there are ca. 5,000 cars and vans using this renewable and locally grown fuel.  This is surely true flower power?!   A simple conversion costing between £170 - £570 will let your diesel engine reliably start and run on this CO2 neutral fuel.  Also extensive tests have proved that a blend of 30% pure plant oil with 70% diesel is a reliable fuel even in an unmodified car .  ( the fuel filter will probably need renewing more often but this is only a 10 minute job and costs ca. £9 . No big deal.

I met a native Iraqi last sunday at a peace march at Fairford .  He told us that Iraq does have a weapon of mass destruction..........hidden underground.  It is called Crude Oil.  Are we sacrificing our people and environment for our desperate need for fossil oil? ..(Oil tanker spills,global warming, pollution wars for oil.)  Worth pondering over ,I think.

VEGETABLE OIL IS:
a renewable fuel, and CO2 neutral
100% rapidly biodegradeable
harmless to water , fish, humans and animals
Emmissions when used as engine fuel are free of sulphur and release less particulates
With attention to detail, pure vegetable oil ( new or used and filtered) will NOT damage your engine, in fact it lubricates better than ultra low sulphur diesel.

Road fuel Duty is payable at a rate of 26 p /litre (in the UK only)
Sebastian Rasch

Dear Sebastian  (John's reply in black)

Good point about the oil war. This is not the first and not the last.

John: here´s my view on some of the things you brought up (Niels comments are in blue).

Supermarket SVO
Of cause it makes no sense to use SVO made in food quality and bottled in 1 litre bottles. I have driven my car more than 3 years through 11 countries without a single drop of fossil fuel, and only once I was filling with 40 bottles from a French supermarket because I ran out of fuel. If you have a developed distribution system for SVO of technical quality (fuel etc), the price is lower and it´s much more practical, and nobody will buy bottles in the supermarket. In Denmark there has been installed around 100 small oil presses at farms during the last couple of years. People buy it there because the farmers only need the cakes and a smaller part of the oil.

Actually I believe that taxation on SVO encourage people to buy it in the shops, because nobody can run a business selling SVO fuel, if you have to pay the tax.

What about UK´s tax break on RME. Isn´t it also made from nice natural SVO which could have been bottled and sold in the supermarkets.

Discrimination of SVO
I couldn´t imagine that it´s possible to have tax break on RME but not on SVO, but thats the case at least in UK and France. The UK tax break on 0,32 EURO´s /liter is about the same as we pay in mineral oil tax for diesel in Denmark, so for us it´s like 100% tax free, but we also should pay tax for SVO and RME.

SVO modification.
If people believe that the engine will clog or blow up - let them. The modified engines don´t know this, but you have to take the necessary care about the modification and the fuel quality. It´s no wonder that an engine runs on SVO without conversion, but if it continues to do it and the emissions are acceptable, I believe it´s a wonder. SVO can also be bad quality fuel if you don´t pay attention to this. Regarding technical inspection, the Danish inspectors don´t consider the modification with injector, heat exchanger, glow plugs, pipes, etc as a "constructive change", wherefore it is not necessary to bring the car to inspection due to the conversion. They just clap there hands and ask for a try.

It sounds like we can all agree to support decentralised RE solutions and "bottom-up" culture etc. Then I will encourage everybody to follow what is going on in Brussels now regarding the coming biofuel directive. The multi-nationals are constantly trying to get all the cake and push out the small uncontrollable decentralised solutions like SVO. Profit and controllable are key words for most of the biofuels mentioned on the indicative list of the proposal for a directive. If SVO don´t get on that list, it will just mean further discrimination of SVO in the future.

Please see

http://www.folkecenter.dk/plant-oil/EU-biofuel/EU_biofuel_review.htm

and http://www.folkecenter.dk/plant-oil/plant-oil_en.htm

Best regards  Niels Ansø  DK

=====================================

Dear Niels,

Thanks for a very helpful appraisal on the ssituation with the develelopment of bio-fuels form a 'European' perspective. I feel very much that we are so isolated in the UK. The UK government has made it very clear that they do not want to promote the development of SVO as a fuel in the UK. According top their information it will cause all kinds of technical problems. Both you and I know differently. The Taxation people in UK have emphasised that the use of SVO as a fuel will not classify for the tax break. To classify the fat must be used fat or waste fat. This opens the question about the importation of bio-fuels form Germany or Malaysia which are derived from virgin fats. So far we have not got a clear answer to the question.

In my view the UK taxation policy is unsustainable, and it is impossible to apply consistently. However, we are small and the government can afford the best barristers in the country. There are many other things quite wrong in the UK, not in just the fuels industry. But alone there is a limit to how much change can be achieved.

One problem is that small organisations do not have what is called 'clout'. By this I mean that big organisations get to influence political decision simply because they have power, and not because they have the right view or information. No matter how correct ones proposals may be, if you don't have 'clout' you lose.

For this reason we are now building up the bio-power network as fast as we can. We keep a low profile deliberately. When we have sufficient strength in numbers to have economic impact then we will have some degree of clout. But I want this to be a bottom up project. It is essential that we break the hold of the multi-nationals.

Please keep in touch!
JN.

Yes John, I heard you on NPR tonight in Floridia USA. Here is a bit I have been telling every one, and interestingly enough adds to the push for Bio. The first oil well (or close to it) was in 1859 here in the state of Pensilvania.   In that short time our use is obviously tremendous, USA infact is something like 50 million barrels a day of course. That would also include things like, plastic, fiberglass….. you know I think when we run out we will be out , I mean

From: John Fisher [mailto:jpfisher@west.net]
Sent: 22 January 2003 17:56
To: john-nicholson@ntlworld.com
Subject: Non-polluting bio diesel
re http://www.northwales.org.uk/bio-power/index.htm

Your site claims that bio-diesel doesn't pollute. You may or may not be aware that this is not true.   Basic chemistry reveals that burning any organic fuel produces nasty by-products and CO2. Some fuels like natural gas, are better than others. We have cars in the States that run unleaded gasoline, that produce nearly zero NOx and CO, but still a lot of CO2 (Honda "SULEV" models). To my knowledge, all diesels produce carcinogenic particulates, which aren't well contained by the available technology. What does seem to be the case is that some formulations of bio-diesel are better in some ways than fossil-fuel diesel. However, they may produce more NOx.  

I refer as a source to my wife who is a public info person with the local air quality district here in California. As you probably know, Southern California has some pretty bad air, and a very strong regulatory climate. The district and the state have been measuring various blends of bio diesel, with mixed results, though generally positive. I have been hearing a lot from her about very new studies that show the particulate emissions from diesel to be the most significant single source of carcinogenic air pollution in California. There is no reason to think it would be different for your area. They are working on a position paper now, and it sounds like they will rate some kinds of bio-diesel cleaner than standard.

We all, of course, support the renewable energy source provided by bio-diesel. For myself, I see it as an interim fuel on the way to hydrogen. I have driven a hydrogen powered Honda, and the car companies are starting to lease a few test mules to California governments. I now think the conversion to hydrogen will happen. Given our current national administration, it may take longer ( ahem, enough said there ) than necessary.

John P. Fisher at home
jpfisher@west.net
WSMC novice # 682
Team Motosaurus
Sport Cycle Pacific

Dear John,

Many thanks for your message. I think it is the first letter I have ever read expressing the sort of view you take, and I have received many thousands of messages about bio-fuels!

I don't think we claim that bio-diesel does not pollute at all, because any form of movement or travelling will cause some degree of pollution, even walking (just look at the damage done to our local mountains in Snowdonia by walkers!). However, we are motivated by the desire to provide the public a choice of fuel. At resent everyone is forced to buy only fossil fuels. We believe that if the public was given a choice, namely to buy a fossil fuel that adds to the effect of Global Warming, or a non-fossil fuel that does not add to this effect, then most people would select the non-fossil fuel. But we also have found that we can just undercut the price of fossil fuels and still run a viable business.

I agree with you that the burning of both types of fuel produces the same amount of CO2 BUT the issue is the question 'from where does that carbon come?' The carbon in our fuels is drawn from the atmosphere by plants as they live within the last year of may be two years at the most. Whereas the carbon released into the atmosphere by fossil fuel is derived from the store of carbon trapped in the earth's crust which was locked up many millions of years ago. It is this difference that is paramount! It is the adding of fossil carbons into the atmosphere that is the primary cause of Global Warming.

I do agree with you about the issue of Nitrous Oxide emissions IF the form of bio-fuel used is RME. We do not consider RME a very 'green' form of bio-fuel for many environmental reason. Or method of making bio-fuels is very different. We do not create any waste by-products like glycerol and we do not use any reactive mineral chemicals. Our formula is quite sophisticated and actually reduces the emission of Nx.

It would be very interesting to read the report your wife is compiling on the comparisons of various types of bio-fuel under test conditions.

I have seen work being done in UK with hydrogen however, it always seems that Hydrogen is used as a way of transferring energy as is electricity. The hydrogen has to be separated or made in the first place and this requires more energy. The fuel stock we use is already in existence as waste cooking fat! We are turning a waste disposal problem in to a useful resource. Our work is in the release of all forms of energy that get stored up naturally, like in lipid fats, sugars, starches and cellulose. It is our view that we all live in a sea of potential energy, but we are conditioned only to turn to fossil fuels to meet our energy needs. This because the multi national companies do want us to become totally dependent upon them for our energy, when the truth is that we could meet much of our energy needs from local waste resources. Food for thought?

I attach a copy of our bio-power charter which sets out our shared ethical aims.
Keep in touch!

John Nicholson
bio-power (uk) Ltd

You do say
" Like all non-fossil fuels, it does not pollute the atmosphere nor add to the causes of global warming. "
I think you ought to admit having the same carcinogenic particulate pollution problem as all diesels.

Point well taken about the transfer of carbon, I have heard the same argument elsewhere. I am not entirely convinced, but then I have only a layman's knowledge in these fields. Of course you could argue that fossil fuels are also an ongoing part of the biosphere, just latent. Maybe global warming is just taking us back to the Cretaceous.....

Follow the CARB and SCAQMD websites in California for the latest stuff, its all public, and all of it goes on the web. I hear it over the dinner table....

Our diesel price is much less than yours, so we can't produce all-farmed bio-diesel for a competitive price, even utilizing waste. There simply isn't enough old fat out there and soybeans cost too much. I think our taxes are too low, but no politician will publicly agree, especially in the current situation.

The plan for hydrogen is to begin by using natural gas as a feed stock. Its a known process, and we have a lot. It does produce by-products, and CO2, but no more than clean cars. Centralizing the emissions is also very important to us, because our smog problems are related to micro-climate. Its better to emit in some places rather than others. Further, its easier to clean up a centralized emission. However the CO2 problem isn't solved at all. None of that applies in Europe, probably. We do have a couple of solar hydrogen stations, which are glamorous, but not very effective. There is some hope for more efficient solar cells, which would go a long way toward solving the problem in sunny California. Even a hybrid system where electric grid supplied hydrogen is used in vehicles instead of batteries, would be much better than what we have now. There is a lot of hope for methanol-powered fuel cells, though once again they have the CO2.

It looks like we in the US will opt for a combination of multi-national-supplied hydrogen and local production. The infrastructure changes are too vast for local suppliers only - theres no point in marketing hydrogen cars if you can't buy it and vice versa.... Politically, we can't get government support without the Big Boys. However, I don't despair, I already buy my gas from Shell, I would much prefer that they sold me hydrogen instead. I can always make my own, as well.

cheers and good luck,
J.

It occurs to me that if the production of sustainable, enviromentally neutral fuels is so easy given technology that has been around for well over a hundred years, then someone needs to do a lot of explaining why we haven't been exploiting this source of energy while the various parties with vested interests in petrochemicals and taxation have gone around shedding crocodile tears for the impact on the environment of burning fossil fuels.
Stephen Oliver
You have it exactly. It seems that you summarize what we all feel so very well! JN.

At the moment I just want to make enough fuel for my own use, but as you say, who knows it might get addictive, and maybe, it might start an interest in bigger things. I run a Mitsubishi Pajero, which only does about 25 to the gallon, so any way I can run it a bit cheaper (and help the environment at the same time) interests me. I have studied your Website, and I do think it's excellent with easy to understand instructions for novices like my self. I would like to keep things as legal as possible with the authorities etc. and of all the websites I've visited yours is the one that makes the most sense.
Ken Griffiths

Hello Mr. Stubbs,  The policy director of the Automobile Association (UK)
Thank you very much for your reply. However I was not talking about biodiesel but indeed about used fresh straight vegetable oil. As you said this has a higher viscosity and therefore the car needs a conversion which mainly constists of a heat exchanger (coolant water/fuel) and a good electric preheater which also heats the filter as long as there is no hot coolant water. Blending vegoil with diesel is only necessary when temperatures go beyond freezing point. However, ways conversion are different and adopted to each type of engine (prechamber, whirlachamber, DI). But if a proper conversion had been done and the oil had been filteres down to at least 10µ (better 5µ) there is no point against running the car on straight fresh or used vegetable oil.

Having read and now heard what you say I believe that we are on similar wave-lenghts. I want to be apart of developing our future more than being a part of the gravy-train. I believe that co-operation is an effective solution to most problems encountered, the old saying a problem shared is a problem halved, does run true.
James Joyce,  Arun Autogas Ltd

People that use cooking oils in their car will never cause global warming as vegetable derived oils are carbon-neutral!

People that use cooking oil in their car will never send our men and women in uniform to fight war in the Middle East as cooking oil is grown at home or at safe locations on the planet!

People who use cooking oil in their car emit gases that are 90% safer and 90% cleaner than fossil based fuel emissions!

People who use cooking oil in their cars have helped to create 20,000 jobs in Germany and as many in France. Engineers, chemists, salespeople, academics, all have jobs thanks to the biodiesel industry now thriving in Europe.
As an added bonus the farming communities of Germany & France are very happy indeed growing rapeseed and sunflower energy crops for biodiesel production!

Isn't it a sad indictment In Blair's Britain now preparing to send its young people to war and readying its civilian population for God only knows what, that a small group of pioneers who are only trying to make a living are being persecuted at taxpayers' expense?

Isn't it tragic that the greatest engineering nation in the world has been reduced to this sad and pathetic plight - war, unemployment, discord and pollution?

Is everybody happy now?
(Did Martin Steele write this?)

"The DTLR does not wish to encourage the use of straight vegetable oil as a fuel for vehicles, as their information indicates it will have significant negative environmental effects and damage vehicle engines, and could undermine the development of a viable, high quality, processed biodiesel market."
Guess who?

"I cannot comprehend the way we are paying through the nose for fuel, and apparently ruining the planet, when we can use a natural product which is at present practically thrown away.

I also believe there should be NO duty on this. This Government are literally robbing the British people. It is not only motorists that are suffering, but also ANYONE who relies on transport for anything."
Jim Solo

"After yesterday's Channel 4 news item on SVO supermarket sales in S. Wales increasing due to use in cars, I became frantic and was lead to your site. I'd prefer to use non fossil oil any day, permanently, not just because of Greenhouse effects and pollution, but because people like Osama bin Laden and George Bush have ultimately been funded, one way or another, by Big oil."
Rajith,

Subject: Boi Diesel

The UK is currently drawing up a technical standard for biodiesel - and vehicle manufacturers are happy to allow their engines to run on up to 5% biodiesel in fossil diesel, provided the stringent specification is complied with.  The point is that the modern diesel engine is very critical as to fuel spec - aspects such as the viscosity, deposit formation, cold weather performance and burning properties will greatly affect the efficiency and emissions.

DIY esterification can be used to treat the cooking-grade oils. In theory this process could work, if the operator was good enough and was able to check the product for viscosity etc. In practice, it would be a bit random.  The chemicals normally used, eg methanol and lye, are deadly poison and quite inappropriate for domestic use. The process is dangerous and only someone experienced in the handling of such chemicals, and having the right equipment, should atempt such work.

John Stubbs
Head of Technical Policy
The Automobile Association
Motoring Policy Unit
Lower Ground Floor, Fanum House
BASINGSTOKE
RG21 4EA

Phone: 01256 491422 07769 545290
http://www.theaa.com
http://www.aapolicy.com

As I work for an environmental organisation the thought that waste oil could be used in this fashion intrigued/pleased me no end. The oil waste provider no longer has the problem of disposal, the oil is reused instead of diesel etc, it seems a win win situation, except for the fuel companies.
Mandy Rutter.

Hello John,
I have been running my pajero on w.v.o.with no problems at all.  I use a heater in the tank, one before the pump and one around the filter.
As soon as the engine is up to temperature I flick over a switch on the dash.  All my WVO is pre filtered using an old powerwash as a pump and a transit filter , as the filters are only £1.00.it is a non return system.  

thank you for your informative site!
yours
D.JEFFERSON.

Just looked through your site.  All sounds very impressive. The americans seem to have it well organised so i hope u can get it together before they start importing. Good luck in your future adventures.
Ian Woodford

Thanks for your comment Ian.
The Americans are not our worry. It makes no sense for us to import fat fuels from USA. The Americans would do better to persuade their own to get on board with the Kyoto treaty.  The problem is with our own government that bleats about the Americans non compliance with Kyoto, but continues to tax non-fossil fuels. Our form of fuel is tax free in America, Germany, Italy, Poland and many other ECC nations, but the UK government continues to tax SVO as derv.  Even ULSD has a lower tax rate!  Why not write to your MP demanding the removal of tax from all non-fossil fuels?  
JN.

It's a good idea to reduce global warming! But savings of just 1 metric ton annually is not very challenging. Take an average of 20.000 km driven annually and a consumption of approx. 7 litre Biodiesel / 100 km and You get 4,2 t reduction in greenhouse gas emissions.  Tax the risks --- support the benefits !
Werner KOERBITZ
Austrian Biofuels Institute

Well, so far. I've just come back from the first and (until now) only vegoil filling station in Cologne. It's a farmer who grows his own rapeseed, cold-presses it and so produces fresh vegoil (filtered by 1µ & Wheihenstephan quality standard) and rapeseed cake to feed his animals.
Stephan Helbig (Cologne)

FUEL AND HOUSEHOLD PRODUCTS COULD SOON BE "GROWN" FROM GREEN CROPS
Cast your mind to the future. Vehicles could be running not on diesel but on oil extracted from a common British crop, you could be walking on carpets the fibres of which are made from hemp and listening to music on headphones made from maize. Sounds far-fetched? Believe it or not, this could be reality sooner than you think.

These events are all symptomatic of climate change - a misunderstood phenomenon which does not mean we will all soon be enjoying tropical conditions but one that leads to extreme weather patterns of storm and drought.   The effects of climate change on farming have already been pronounced. Crops are literally washed or blown away or their quality is severely degraded. But climate change will soon disrupt all live our lives. And yet the pace at which these problems are being addressed is lamentable. A cynic might suggest that this is because it is unattractive in the short-term political perspective to address what is a long-term issue. To suggest that we need to reduce our dependence on oil when any significant benefits will not be realised for decades - possibly not even in our lifetimes - requires a clear vision of the objectives and an appreciation of the magnitude of the problem.

The potential is much wider than bio-fuels, though. Sony announced in July the launch of the first Walkman with a casing made from maize starch. Not only is this made using renewable raw materials, but it also means that when the product comes to the end of its life it can be burnt to produce heat without the release of poisonous dioxins. Fujitsu are set to follow this development with a laptop that is made from the same product. And trials are taking place using oils, starch and fibres from crops in a whole raft of other ways from car dashboards to cosmetics to nylon without nitrogen oxide emissions.

The Chancellor has an opportunity to make a mark here in his autumn Budget statement in the coming days. Let us hope he does.

806 words 22 November 2002
National Farmers' Union Press Office: 020 7331 7397

Return to bio-power main index page

I hope you found the information on this site useful.
Do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further questions.

John Nicholson

August 2001, January 2002, October 2002 June 2007